//Interview\\ Lizzie Thomas: ' it was such a blood, tears, guts, glory type album and experience for me.'

From adoring the musical brilliance of Madonna and Whitney Houston to shining bright as a New York jazz star, Lizzie Thomas doesn’t mess around when it comes to Jazz or producing the perfect album, whether its original material or American songbook classics.

With her latest and first-ever self-produced album Awakening now out in the world, we sat down with Lizzie to get the story on what music means to her, becoming a producer and how music caught her ear in the first place.

What was the first piece of music or song that made you fall in love with music or made you want to make music, and what was so special about that music or that song for you?

I don't remember a specific song, but I can tell you that the posters that were plastered on my wall were Madonna, Whitney Houston, The Police, and Michael Jackson. So that gives you a sense of how I was, like a mid-to-late eighties girl, and those were my artists that I thought were amazing, that this was it, this was my life, they lived here with me in my room. 

From those albums, I would say Madonna “Like a Virgin”, when that album came out, Michael Jackson, “Thriller” & “Bad”, you know, these were the empires of my musical mind at the time, those were the artists I thought that ‘this was it, this is amazing, this is the music of my life.

When it came to Awakening, how did you go about ordering the tracks for the album?  Was there a method to it?

There's always a method. Yes. You know, originally, 'Le Train Bleu (With One More)' was the opening track, and I realised that it just wasn't the best representation. If I had a person listen to one song on “Awakening”, listening to : “Le Train Bleu (With One More)”  was not the song that was going to tell them what “Awakening” was about. I remember this moment of like, no, that's actually the last track. Funnily enough, it was the first song to be written in 2022, while I was on a trip to Paris..

When I thought about if I only get one song for someone to listen to, which song is that going to be?  Which song vibrates “Awakening:, the best and “This Love”  kept presenting itself as ‘Let it be me, let me be the first song. I think it's a beautiful opener, an invitation to say, Do you want more? Do you want to keep listening? I think you do’.. So I think “This Love” is a beautiful first track. 

It's very important to me for the music to tell a story. To have palate cleansers, to let the ear rest, but then also ask for more. So when I looked at the organisation of the album, it's very methodical. It's very well planned out, and I wouldn't change the order at all. 

You took some new directions on this album, it's rooted in Jazz, but also neo soul, pop and R&B for some of the tracks. What drew you to that music shift? 

As a Jazz vocalist in the Jazz canon, the beauty of it is that there's ultimate creativity, there's ultimate improvisation. You know, the idea is that you learn the song, you learn it from the root, and then not until then- do you get to make it into your own, which sometimes is nothing like the song; that's freedom. That's the idea of Jazz. I really embodied that for a long time, but I still felt like there were certain Jazz rules in the book that were keeping me from expressing myself in the ways that I wanted to, so one of the big changes I made was in just purely instrumentation.

The instrumentation on a Jazz album typically is an acoustic stand-up bass, and I ventured from that, and I have to say that's a big deal, even though it doesn't sound like a big deal. Moving to electric bass on most of the tracks was huge. I also pumped up the bass because a song like “Slow Baby Slow” was written purely with the instrumentation of the electric bass in mind. When you talk about the standard drum kit, the bass drum in the jazz world is usually 18 inches, sometimes 16, but usually 18.  What happens when you shift into pop, R&B, and hip hop is that the bass drum goes to 20 inches and even 22 inches. So you're getting a bigger, boomier sound. So the difference is in the Jazz world, you have tightness to the bass drum. And in other genres, you get a bigger, boomier sound. On Awakening, I shifted the instrumentation; the bass drum is bigger.  There's also the whining, bluesy, electric guitar on this album, and you typically wouldn't find it on a Jazz album. All those elements suggest a mixing of genres. Yet you still have a classic Jazz sound with Wayne Escoffery on soprano sax.  He's really driving that melodic, dreamy feel with the soprano sax on some of these tracks. 

Then, I have the Harlem String Quartet, which is incredible, appearing on “Home” and “Awakening.”  I knew I wanted to work with strings on this album, and these songs deserve it.  They need it. They want it.  

All these examples were just beautiful, rich, deep, musical aspects that I wanted to bring in. Even just through the instrumentation, the sound is shifting the scenery of the album as well.

You've not only written the songs on “Awakening”  and performed them, but you've also produced them, you've arranged them, as part of 3% of the female producer pool. What was the creative process like for you? And what freedoms did it give you?

Being the producer on the album was something I was very passionate about. When you look at my past albums, I had a co--producer title, and the reason I did was because I was learning the process. I was leaning on others, and on their expertise.  I was previously signed to another label, DotTime Records.  I had released several albums with that label, and we happily parted ways. It was then that I set up my own label, GODDESS Legacy Records, with the intention of releasing Awakening on it. Awakening was such a blood, tears, guts, glory type album and experience for me, I just couldn't give it away to another label or another producer, honestly. 

 Regarding my process as a producer, I'll give you a kind of what it looks like throughout the process of beginning to finish.

So as I’m writing the songs, as they are coming to me,  I write charts for them and I do little demos so that my band hears them.  Some of them, I'm at the piano playing the song in full.  Some of them are too developed and advanced for me to play on the piano and sing, AND I am not afraid to admit that.  So I do several demos of what I’m hearing for the instrumentation.  Then they (the band) hear them, and we go into rehearsals, then to the studio, and we record the songs. In the studio recording, it's not about me getting my vocals recorded.  The studio time is about the band. Recording the vibe and feel of all the songs.  My pianist, long time collaborator and musical director, John DI Martino, and I both know what we are going after and ensure we achieve it in the studio. 

When I mix, I think of colours, sound, frequency, and placement. Now, my engineer, Dave Darlington, is awesome, because I could look at him and go, Dave, can we make my background vocals sound like angels in the skies, bursting from the clouds? And he's like, Yeah, okay, let's do that. 

I listen to the songs, and they tell me what they need and want to come to life.  Hopefully, I've just painted the picture for you, as what I've just described to you is the producer role for me. 

On that note, I know female empowerment is quite close to your heart and intertwines throughout your music. What do you think the industry does well to empower women, and what could it improve on in your opinion?

Well, I'm a Recording Academy member, and I remember watching the Grammys last year, and I thought it was all women, and I remember making this comment, oh, Ta-da, here we go! So I think where the parts of the industry that are working are because women are demanding attention, and I think that's also a beautiful thing.  Women are now saying, listen to me, I am worth your time, I am worth your attention. So I think it's a symptom of the fact that women are not accepting being held back, and so we're seeing more women, and I think the industry, the music industry overall, is allowing this, and is getting out of the way. 

The industry as a whole has been male-dominated. It still is, but it is changing. There is a new community, a new way of doing things, and I think it's very female-driven, it's very female-led.  And when we think about the difference between female-led excursions and male-led excursions, I would say the biggest difference is when women are rising and given the opportunity to express themselves, we create, so let's continue to create. You know, women are community-oriented, women are not solo silo thinkers, they're inclusive, and they bring everybody to the table, and the table's big, and there's a lot of different kinds of people, and different kinds of food at the table. These are all really positive things that are happening, not only in the music community, but also in the world community.

I would say that there's a lot the industry needs to improve upon. Am I the spokesperson to present all of those things? No, but you know, here I am- I think the writers who are writing the songs, and the musicians who are creating the songs, should be able to have fair wages, and to be able to have health care, and wages to make a living.  You know, I think my life is a perfect example of this. I was brought up with my parents saying music is a great hobby, but what are you really going to do with your life? How are you going to make money? And I wish that it wasn't that way. 

Music is an incredible life force energy. The ones who are truly enhancing the world with their music need to be able to make a living, pay the bills, and take care of themselves. And that is something that needs to be reworked. Because many musicians can not make a living from music. I barely make a living from music. 

My profession is music. I am dedicated to being the producer, being the songwriter, being the performer, being the mentor. Right now, I'm on tour, being the touring musician that shares my music with the world, and I need to be paid adequately so that I can continue to do that. That's a real opportunity that needs to happen. 

'Awakening' is out now on all streaming platforms, and Lizzie's next live show will be her Holiday Jazz show on the 12th of December in New York at DROM.